All of the posts are so good! The harder something is to believe the more non-proof is given. I heard comments that "the study was so good today." How can so many little bread crumbs of non-information excite JW's so much? I think that they have to keep saying we have the Truth (or my god we have got to have the Truth) because if they don't they have just admitted to being hoodwinked into dedicating their life's to a book publishing company who knows how to make the big bucks selling fixed up buildings with free labor so they can sell them and get everyone excited about fixing up different buildings. I wish that my mother never spent $0.10 on the Watchtower and Awake in the late 1960's.
Sour Grapes
JoinedPosts by Sour Grapes
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Watchtower Study today Jan 4 2015 , Fallacious Reasoning (issue Nov 15 2014)
by BluesBrother inthe subject of the study was jesus resurrection .
my post is not about the subject and whether or not that can be believed in.
millions of christians do and it is not my place to debunk religious faith.
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JW's love to talk themselves into believing stupidity
by Sour Grapes inwell today the watchtower conductor makes the statement that "the tv.jw.org web site is proof that we have jehovah's blessing because such an endeavor would have been impossible without his help".
of course that causes all of the bobbing heads in full agreement.
i wonder what god blessed cbs, abc, and nbc to get up and going and offer their programming?.
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Sour Grapes
Well today the Watchtower conductor makes the statement that "the tv.jw.org web site is proof that we have Jehovah's blessing because such an endeavor would have been impossible without His help". Of course that causes all of the bobbing heads in full agreement. I wonder what god blessed CBS, ABC, and NBC to get up and going and offer their programming?
Another doozy today was the comment that our being at the meeting today is proof that we have the Truth.
Sour Grapes
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LDC Semininar
by Sour Grapes inldc semininar @ patterson nov 15-18, 2014 .
entire ldc dept included remote workers/design/legal/real estate/purchasing.
oversight.
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Sour Grapes
LDC SEMININAR @ PATTERSON Nov 15-18, 2014
Entire LDC dept included – remote workers/design/legal/Real Estate/purchasing
Oversight
Jamaica & Palm coast are linked in
Most of seminar is not confidential (I have excluded anything confidential)
HARMONIOUSLY WORKING TOGETHER – Jonathan Robbins (S. Africa)
Today we will get the full picture of a new program that is in no way related to RBC or to LWLR (lands with limited resources) – both programs are history
LDC is New! With elements of the old arrangements
We will get an overview of the vision of where we have to go – logic will tell you it cant work – but Jesus is in control
GB as said “this is the way…”
Don’t apply your professional thinking to this concept – we will use it but it won’t guide you.
We all need to be clear with 1 voice for our family and friends to understand it – we are the face of LDC – be excited - do you realize how incredible this is?!
When things look impossible – how do we spiritually get our thinking right?
Look at creation – its all in sync its all in order – that is reassuring – Be part of that order – Jehovah blesses unity!
“Do Jehovah’s work – Jehovah’s way” We are spiritual people asked to do a physical task.
On Jan 17 & 24 the GB will do live streaming to elders & CO’s to inform them of the changes
EX 12:37 Israelites depart from Egypt – they seem to wander a bit before they get to the Red Sea –first they are told to go toward Succoth - if you are an Israelite you know Succoth is in the wrong direction – human wisdom says go North to Zoar – it’s the shortest route – there’s a highway – its well watered – it makes perfect sense!
Ex 13:20 from Succoth to Edom – now what?? We are near the wilderness – speaking of Moses, what would you have said to your wife? “He’s lost – he’s old!”
Ex 14:2 now they turn back to Pihahiroth and camp by the sea – what? Now you say “hes completely lost it!” You are only looking at the man . Are we sitting here at LDC saying “these brothers don’t know what they’re doing – this is ridiculous!”
Ex 14:17 (Heres what no one knew – Jeh had a plan) God chose not to send them the shortest way – he knew that they may turn back if they were faced with a way out. Ex 14:4 says ‘ I will allow pharaoh’s heart to become obstinate and he will chase after them” – why? “thus I will glorify MYSELF by means of Pharaoh” There was a bigger reason for doing things this way.
The bigger reason was and is = Jehovah’s glory!
We have the tremendous privilege of experiencing his mighty hand…
EX 14:30,31 “Jehovah saved Israel…they saw the Egyptians dead on the shore…they saw his great power. And the people began to fear Jehovah and put faith in him and his servant Moses”
When the horses were pounding down on them – would you have doubted?
Right now the RBC has 275,000 people in Builder Assist – we are reducing that to a handful? Ridiculous?
Do we really believe that Jehovah is in control?
EX 13: the pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire – were visible evidence of Jehovah’s direction
Look at EX 14:10,11 – When the Israelites were frightened they lost sight of Jehovah and saw only the man – they didn’t see the pillar of fire!
2 months later – after going thru the Red Sea – witnessing a miracle of Jeh’s saving power – what did they do? Built a golden calf and called it Jehovah! They got afraid – they needed something visible. But what was on the other side of the camp – all while they were building the calf? Yes…the pillar of fire!!! They chose not to see the evidence Jeh provided and chose to look at the calf!
Can you see the Pillar of Fire today?
YES! The organization is growing at a phenomenal rate
At an unprecedented rate – people are simplifying their lives – ridding themselves of their belongings to come and serve Jeh more fully – the room is filled with professionals from all over the country and world – that have chosen to completely unplug from their livelihoods – leave everything and everyone to come work on this historic project
GB says simplify – earn less money but at the same time they need millions more to do what we need to do – a contradiction? NO – Jehovah makes it happen. – consider:
We are the largest printing house in the world - all unskilled workers
We are the largest translation organization in the world – 700 lang- unskilled
We are one of the largest property development corporations in the world – we own over 80,000 properties – this is all managed by volunteers
Can you see it? The pillar of fire?
We are asked to adjust our thinking and feelings – Jehovah is in control. When we are told “go this way” we say “ I will go even if I don’t understand why right now”
Zech 4:6 “not by military force, nor by power, but by my spirit ”
We are tools…our value is based upon obedience and loyalty – not talent.
In Africa –land ownership is in layers – it can take years to get thru the red tape and fully gain ownership. Jonathan said his team used to celebrate when they would finally acquire a property – but
then they would immediately stop and thank Jehovah for the victory – by his spirit – not because they were clever or smart.
The fact is – they are clever and smart – but that is not why it works – it works by His spirit alone!
When working together – do you think you have a better way? – there are often many ways to accomplish a task – but in the end we must settle on 1 way and go with it!
Work with those in oversight! Be obedient – be whole souled – have a strong work ethic. Don’t neglect the details…remember Moses did “just as Jeh commanded”
Show initiative: math 25 talents are given to the slaves – they had to show initiative to make the talent grow.
We have sacrificed careers, family, children, and comfort – to give a witness – to care for new ones coming into the truth – to give them a dignified place to meet.
Consider it a privilege to do this work.
ACCELERATING THE CONSTRUCTION OF KINGDOM HALLS Jason Paterson
WT 5-15-14 - there is remarkable growth because of Jehovah
Isaiah “little one will become a 1000; the small one a mighty nation” – Jehovah said he would “speed it up” in the time of the end.
Imagine in the future, speaking to Isaiah about what we are doing???? He had no idea when he wrote those words…
The GB has been reviewing the 2 programs used to build worldwide (RBC and LWLR) and have decided to make a new arrangement that will be unified worldwide.
Organizational Structure looks like this now in 2014: (top down approach)
Publishing Committee
WDC /RDC (Worldwide Design/contr) & (Regional Design/Contr for assembly halls )
LDC - Dept
CG – construction Groups
CV – construction Volunteers
We all agree that the Warwick Project is monumental – and of utmost importance…
To illustrate the scope of work of the LDC consider this:
(Based on square footage)
KH builds needed right now = 3.3 Warwicks
KH remodels needed = 5 Warwicks
Maintenance = 12.2 Warwiks
Total 20.4 Warwicks AND…… the goal is 5 years!
Add to that 1700 Full time Servant Residences & translation offices
Now…you can begin to see the enormity of the undertaking!
Add to that the fact that the US is divided into 7 zones – each zone is geographically as big or bigger than any branch out there.
We have to help change the Perception amongst the friends as to what the priorities are, for example most people think like this in terms of importance:
Warwick
Wallkill
Patterson
Brooklyn
Assembly Halls
Kingdom Halls
Maintenance of Assembly Halls
Maintenance of Kingdom Halls
We need to change the friends thinking to this in terms of importance:
Objective of the Department: simplify / build / renovate / maintain all of our buildings FASTER & with LESS PEOPLE!
RBC is not a failure! Anymore that the DO’s that are being reassigned are failures. Would we say the book study arrangement was a failure simply because we have combined the meetings? NO - Simply put – the time for RBC is past – it is clear we need to make adjustments to keep up with Jehovahs Chariot!
Read the account of Gideon at Judges 7:
32,000 men – already outnumbered by the enemy – Jehovah reduced them down to only 300 men - notice why he did this… verse 2 “otherwise Israel might brag about itself against me and say ‘my own hand saved me’”
Jeh helped Gideon figure out who to search for as key men
Jeh gave them the tools they needed
Vs 17 he gave them exact instructions “watch me and do as I do” Notice 1 standard! – if they were to succeed they had to be unified!
Only AFTER they were unified – then the Holy Spirit was added – and the win!
Jehovah likes impossible odds – this way its clear that He is with his people.
Right now we have:
132 RBC’s
1350 overseers
270,000 people in Builder Assist (we want to reduce this down to 30,000)
We built only 65 new KH in past year – we have a back log of 500 halls to be built plus more every day
Zone 1 – Montgomery NY – Dave Palen
Zone 2 – Palm coast – Matt Gowen
Zone 3 – Chicago
Zone 4 – Rosenberg TX – Ray Andrews (knows Les Jones)
Zone 5 – Denver CO Zone 6 – Malmora CA – Tom McFarland
Zone 7 – Peolip,
Zone 8 – Islands – Rafael Torres
Remember in 1990 how you felt when the branch said we are no longer going to ask for money for the magazines? We wondered how will this work? It costs a lot of money to produce the literature – how can we just hope people will donate?
Well, 24 years later – we are fine – in fact Jehovah has moved people to donate more than enough to keep the work going and growing! Nothing short of a miracle!
Now – this new arrangement dwarfs that miracle – the loan arrangement for building Kingdom Halls is being done away with. The Branch is essentially saying “here’s a $600,000 facility at NO CHARGE - ENJOY!!!!!”
Here is the task of the LDC:
Build 5 times as many Kingdom halls with 1/10 the work force – oh, and 1 more thing – do it for no money!
STANDARIZATION = SIMPLIFICATION=ACCELERATION
As a Business Model – this would be utterly ridiculous!! But this is “Jehovah’s Work – Jehovah’s Way” …so we already know it will be a success – again we are told to work in unity and keep out of the way of the Holy Spirit!
Micah 4:1 prophecy – “ In the time of the end, the mountain of the house of Jeh will be firmly established…and into it peoples will stream”
Problem: people are steaming in faster than we can build! Actually it’s a good problem to have!
STRATEGIC DESIGN (Byron Deitrick)
Jehovah and Jesus have had a special relationship for untold millions of years – Jesus being his “master worker” helping in the creation of everything and all creatures.
Their relationship is much like the relationship between the Architect & the Builder.
The Architect has the vision – the Builder brings it to life!
Job 39:27-29 Job chapter 39 talks about many creatures that were created by Jeh & Jesus – lets take just one: vs 27 the Eagle
Imagine : Jeh says to Jesus – Ok I want this creature to be lighter than air – but very strong – strong enough to carry not only it’s own weight while flying but also the weight of its prey…make its eyesight so keen that it would be like sitting on the top of the Empire State Building yet still be able to see an ant on the ground… go to work!
Jesus figures out that to carry the weight needed and have the ability to fly without tiring out – the wing span would have to be huge – so he creates the eagle with a 7 foot wingspan and designs it to flap its
wings to get lift – and be able to soar using the laws of physics with the wind against its wings – impressive right!
Now Jehovah says: ok today I want you to build a creature that can also fly (Jesus may be thinking he can use the same principles and perhaps design as he did for the eagle) but there’s a catch! This creature is not lighter than air – it’s round and kind of stubby – it’s purpose is to deliver liquid from one place to another – so it needs to fly. We are talking about the Bumble Bee – which at first glance flight for this creature seems to defy the laws of Physics.
Did Jesus turn to Jehovah and cite all the reasons it can’t be done? “your own laws of physics prevent flight of this creature –I can’t do it!” - It’s doubtful he said that…so what did he do?
Turns out the little bees wings have to be short in order for them to get in close to the flowers they are drinking the nectar from – short wings will not create lift for such a heavy bee – the key is in the movement of the wings! Instead of flapping up and down – they move front to back in an alternating pattern – in fact – 1 wing moves at a faster rate than the other – giving its flight a wobbly appearance – it is able to hover and fly straight up and down! Amazing!!
It shouldn’t be able to do this – but it does!!
Jehovah and Jesus created what in human terms should be impossible!
They told us – the GB is aware that when you draw on your years of expertise in the secular world – you will have concerns and see all the reasons this will never work – they understand that – now they want to he how it WILL work!
They ask us to reserve judgment till we have heard fully
In the US we have 7 different climate zones – that creates a problem when you are trying to standardize the Kingdom Hall design.
**We believe reductions of 20% or more is achievable if we simplify the design
3 Principles:
Standardization – leads to simplification – we can improve and learn from our mistakes – we will be building the same thing over and over
Longevity of Materials – using better materials with a longer life will allow us to lengthen the time between remodels
Design is not done in a Vacuum – design works hand in hand with purchasing to determine the best outcome for the best price
The new design will be a bit more commercial in nature – dryvit/stone/ flat roof with parapet / mechanicals on the roof
Recognizable Images like JW.org
Transparency – windows and a store front like entrance - that passersby will be able to see into
Welcoming Atmosphere –this new design will draw people in
Self Serve Literature display immediately in the lobby – this first thing you see – it will mimic what the public is used to seeing in our Metropolitan cart witnessing
The whole idea is like “branding” – or “franchising” – and very recognizable building / logo / message repeated over and over across the country.
STRATEGIC PLANNING (Mark Lafdany )
District Representatives (these are the brothers in charge of each of the 7 zones – they are all CO’s or DO’s pulled off the road for this assignment)
These brothers will need to be good at selecting the right candidates to help them on their LDCO (LDC field office) don’t worry that you will have to teach your helpers everything – LDC will send brothers to help train.
Mark 9:17 child had epilepsy – wanted help from Jesus – he said “if you can help”
Verse 23 Jesus says this expression “if you can?” “all things are possible for he who has faith”
Don’t worry about the methodology – the Holy Spirit can do that!
Land acquisition is critical and includes:
-representative of the occupants of the building (elders)
- trained field workers who gain data in a Geogrid Area
- this data if filtered by another group – down to a few properties that could work.
Our methods will be vastly different than in the RBC approach – once the Branch determines there is a need for land in a specific area - that’s called a (Geo-grid)
We will search for what we NEED – not for whats available! We may often be making offers on properties that are not even for sale – we are giving the Holy Spirit a chance to get us exactly what is needed rather than being limited to whats on the market.
NOT BY MILITARY FORCE! (Darrell Buchanon)
Zech 5;37 “not by military force or by power but by my Holy spirit” that is what will crush insurmountable odds!!!
**we are in a War – we are in small battles with each property
We have enraged Satan
617 / week are getting baptized – he is angry
32,518 / year
Our professionalism can be a weakness – we succeed because of Jehovah NOT because of our skills
Prov 3:9 “Honor Jehovah with your valuable things” our skills are valuable as long as we know our place
We are Guaranteed Success for these reasons:
Jeh wants it done
Spiritual people will do it
You will see the “pillar of cloud & fire”
They asked: Will you go on this journey with us??? If you do, You will see the Red Sea part!!!!!
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A picture of a WT dream
by Sour Grapes inpeople stay jehovah's witnesses for several reasons.
the foremost is because they are taught that they could cheat death and not have to die or even better yet not have to get old.
the second is they can see their dead relatives again , who have a direct pass to paradise, and that we must obey to get there to see them in the resurrection.
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Sour Grapes
People stay Jehovah's Witnesses for several reasons. The foremost is because they are taught that they could cheat death and not have to die or even better yet not have to get old. The second is they can see their dead relatives again , who have a direct pass to paradise, and that we must obey to get there to see them in the resurrection. And a third one is to believe the pretty pictures are a snapshot of reality.
I hope that the claws on the baby panda on the shoulder of the young boy do not rip his clothing or cut into his skin. Moma panda is eating bambo but I don't see any bambo trees around.
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Two pet peeves of mine
by Sour Grapes inthere are two things that just drive me crazy.
one is that the art work in the watchtower is treated like they are actual still photo's taken thousands of years ago.
your will hear comments about look at the smiles on their faces or the sadnees or happiness in their eyes, or notice the reaction of the crowd, etc.
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Sour Grapes
I remember that years ago an old timer who conducted the Watchtower would actually from the platform analyze the size and color of the font of the title for the article. Everything had a hidden message or meaning like the symbolic gnat's eyelash.
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Two pet peeves of mine
by Sour Grapes inthere are two things that just drive me crazy.
one is that the art work in the watchtower is treated like they are actual still photo's taken thousands of years ago.
your will hear comments about look at the smiles on their faces or the sadnees or happiness in their eyes, or notice the reaction of the crowd, etc.
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Sour Grapes
There are two things that just drive me crazy. One is that the art work in the Watchtower is treated like they are actual still photo's taken thousands of years ago. Your will hear comments about look at the smiles on their faces or the sadnees or happiness in their eyes, or notice the reaction of the crowd, etc. Then you have artwork for the future paradise where they could spend an hour with the types of food on the picnic tables, or what animals are playing together, or what nationalities are shown. There is always a running stream with a house on the hill side and people who look like they are over dressed. What is never shown is the inside of the pretty houses on the hill side and where is the elephant pooper scooper hiding.
My second pet peeve is how the speakers will refer to the Watchtower like you are looking up a scripture in the Bible. "The January 15, 1998 Watchtower on page 15 paragraph 12 says:" In fact, the Watchtower usually has a stronger position than the Bible at most meetings.
Sour Grapes
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I have two take aways from the zoned out meeting
by Sour Grapes inout of three hours only two things really caught my attention.
i was surprised there was no special annoucements or more new light.
the first thing is that we know that the org is having a difficult time having young males reach out to be a ministerial servents to carry microphones and adjust the height of the podium.
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Sour Grapes
Out of three hours only two things really caught my attention. I was surprised there was no special annoucements or more new light. The first thing is that we know that the Org is having a difficult time having young males reach out to be a ministerial servents to carry microphones and adjust the height of the podium. So now the Org has tied having sex to reaching out with the admonition that unmarried sisters should only marry ministerial servants. In the Org the brothers have a better chance of marrying a pretty girl than outside the Org. I know overweight and homely bros who have beautiful wifes.
The second thing is the reference to not wearing tight clothing because these clothes are designed by homosexuals. I guess I like to comment too about how bros should not be wearing socks that look loud or make a fashion statement.
Sour Grapes
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Today's WT study (10/12/14) - a sales seminar!
by OneEyedJoe inthis cult is getting really shameless.
the wt study was always supposed to be for discussion of 'the deep truths' of the bible.
the wt may have always been filled with utter nonsense, but at least it had the appearance of a topical discussion of bible doctrine.
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Sour Grapes
As I sat in the KH listening to the comments this morning, I have a gut feel that the purpose of today's study is just a lead up showing how important the tracts are which will lessen the shock when it becomes evident that the mags will at some point not be placed with the public as a cost savings.
Sour Grapes
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Plastic buckets in Paradise
by Sour Grapes ini remember one picture of a pretty little girl holding a plastic bucket in paradise next to a tame lion.. i asked my wife if there is going to be polution in paradise?
of course the answer is no!!!!!..
i asked her where did the plastic bucket come from?
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Sour Grapes
Trillaz said that roughly 10% of the Watchtower study is talking about the pictures. The picture in today's study of first century Christains preaching is a keeper. The comments at my hall were "notice that our first century brothers going door to door have their book bags with them however they did not have the Watchtower and the Awake magazines back then." Someone else chimes in with "look how far we have come compared to the first century. We are now using our IPads featuring JW.Org." Our hall with analyze the pictures even considering the posture and smiles on the faces in the pics. Witnesses consider the pictures in the Watchtower as from God.
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Plastic buckets in Paradise
by Sour Grapes ini remember one picture of a pretty little girl holding a plastic bucket in paradise next to a tame lion.. i asked my wife if there is going to be polution in paradise?
of course the answer is no!!!!!..
i asked her where did the plastic bucket come from?
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Sour Grapes
I remember one picture of a pretty little girl holding a plastic bucket in paradise next to a tame lion.
I asked my wife if there is going to be polution in paradise? Of course the answer is no!!!!!.
I asked her where did the plastic bucket come from? To make this bucket you will need plastic
injection molding machines. The cast iron castings that make these molds can weigh up to 3,000#.
Which means that you will need foundries to make the molds which means that we will need pig iron,
manganese, iron ore, magnesium, silicon and sand. Who is going to dig up the paradise earth to get
all of this stuff out of the ground? Who is going to make the earth moving equipment to dig these minerals
out of the ground? Who is going to process the ores to get the final elements foundries need to make the castings
that will be machined to make the molds to make the plastic bucket? Who is going to make all of the machines
that do the machining? How are we going to transport the 3,000# castings to get them to the machine shops?
Will there we trucks and roads? Who is going to maintain the roads? Who is going to make the road paving
equipment? I doubt if elephants will just use their trucks to pick up the castings. Then we have the problem of
what are we going to use for power to melt the castings for the molds and to machine the molds for the buckets?
Are we going to have electricty or oil? Will there be oil refineries or coal fired electrical generators. Who is going to
drill for the oil or mine the coal not to mention who is going make all of the eqiupment to do this. The picture I just
painted sounds like what we have now. Maybe we are in paradise. Mayabe it will just be easier if we don't
have plastic buckets in paradise. The final answer my wife gave me of where did the plastic bucket come from
was "maybe Jehovah will just snap his fingers and it will be there." Now you can see why you can not reason with
witnesses. They have a fairytail dream. I also wanted to know why doesn't the Watchtower show the inside of
the beautiful houses in paradise ? Maybe because there won't be refigerator's, stoves, or running water without
the old fashion hand pumps with outhouses behing the house. I hope that I won't get stuck with the job of picking
up all of the lion and elelphant crap in the neighbor hood. I wish that God would hurry up and kill 99.9% of mankind
so that I can see how that plastic bucket gets made.
